It doesn’t begin with the rapture
If you ask someone who holds to a pre-tribulation rapture theory when the last seven year tribulation period begins they can usually answer very quickly. They will respond that it begins with the rapture. The last seven year period can sometimes be met with indifference because the thinking and the belief are that they won’t be around anyway and hence they will escape all the hard stuff. Instead, they will be in the sky to meet Jesus in the air for a period of seven years possibly receiving their rewards not until the Lord returns at the end to defeat the Antichrist and the False Prophet at the Battle of Armageddon. But I contend that the last seven years on earth in this age is not something that we can be indifferent to. In fact in Luke 21:36, Jesus said that we need to watch and pray that we may be able to escape all that is about to happen.
In a recent conversation with someone, I explained my belief that the rapture will be post-tribulation and not pre-tribulation. See my Day of the Lord post where I prove from the Scriptures that the Day of the Lord is only one day and how this proves that the rapture must occur after the tribulation not before. So after this person began to really listen to my reasoning for the post-trib position, they asked, “Well, how do we know when it will all begin then if it is not the rapture?” Great question! And this is how we will know…
Elijah’s cup
Tradition can often teach us valuable lessons and there is one particularly interesting lesson in the Jewish Passover or Seder celebration which is celebrated to this very day which I believe is very significant. During this Spring festival, the Jews have an extra cup called Elijah’s cup1 which remains untouched. The front door of the house is briefly opened often by a child with the Hebrew phrase “baruch haba” meaning “welcome.” They are expecting Elijah the Old Testament prophet whose arrival marks the coming of the Messiah. In Judaism, the Jews expect Elijah to return just before the Messiah returns because of the very last verse in the Old Testament in the book of Malachi. The prophet Malachi says of God, “See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.”2 So this gives us the key to how we will know when that important last seven years begins and then we are on a very strict timeline until Christ returns exactly seven years later.
Another Elijah is coming
In other words, we as Christians are also waiting for Elijah or a type of Elijah in the spirit of John the Baptist the first time around. John the Baptist was Elijah if you are willing to accept it but we know that Jesus Christ was rejected by His own people, the Jews. So in effect, we are now waiting for another “Elijah” to be sent and his coming will in fact begin the countdown. But next time he will come with a companion and together they will be known as “the Two Witnesses.”3 These two men will measure out the correct temple of God and altar in the old city of David which is some 600 m or so south of the current perceived temple mount where the Dome of the Rock has stood since AD 692. The Two Witnesses will have power and they will prophesy for 1260 days during this first half of the 7 years. Nothing will be able to touch them. When their time is up, however, the beast will be released from the Abyss and he will overpower them and kill them. This is how we will know that the beast does not appear on the scene until the halfway point. Before that, he will be locked up.
Watch Jerusalem
Where will the Two Witnesses prophesy and minister? In Jerusalem at the centre of the world, the navel of the country, where Jews gather every day praying, rocking back and forth in religious fervour, the Western Wall. How will we know about this? Cameras are trained on this very spot 24/7, 365 days a year. See it here.
So when will it all begin? When we see two prophets begin to prophesy and minister at the centre of all the world in Jerusalem, measuring out the altar and striking the earth with all kinds of plagues, then we will know that the countdown has begun.
Where do we watch and pray? Watch for the signs at Jerusalem and watch specifically for the two witnesses to begin their ministry. The rapture occurs much later, seven years later to be exact.
Proposed countdown to the Two Witnesses...
- https://www.britannica.com/topic/Elijahs-cup [↩]
- Mal. 4:5 [↩]
- Rev 11:3 [↩]
8 Responses
Thanks Steve… and are there any other theories out there that suggest creation (A.M.) happened more recently in history than your timeline proposes? (I’m not aware of any theories like that myself but do you know of any?)
Cheers, Col
Hi Col,
No, not that I am aware of. Most people believe that history is older because of evolution. Even theistic evolutionists such as John Lennox believe everything in the context of evolution and long eras. Ruth Beechick concludes in her article “Chronology for everybody” that the earth is about 6000 years and if anything needs to change it is secular history not Biblical history. There are some good resources on Creation.com.
The Jewish Rabbis believe that creation happened slightly younger, only 5782 years ago but I think their chronology is faulty (See Discrepancy between Jewish and protestant Chronology). But even they believe that there will be 6000 years until their Messiah and His Kingdom.
Hi Steve, hope you and Cathi are both well.
Was just looking back at the countdown and your suggested timeline which gives very precise dates. It certainly would be wonderful if we only have 7 + 7 years to go!
My question is… from your perspective, to what degree may these event occur sooner or later than what your timeline suggests (what is the possible margin of error) given it seems the timeline you propose is very dependent on the 6000 year old earth theory? For example, if we get to say 2035 can we safely say at that point that the 6000 year old earth theory no longer applies?
Forgive me for asking the above, but the reason I ask is that there are MANY people out there (especially YouTube) who have predicted dates that have never eventuated… and when the date passes, it’s not long before they have another video explaining how they miscalculated along with their new and updated prediction… One guy (yes a pre-tribber) has a new prediction every month (unsubscribed that one)!
I understand the purpose of your website is more about preparing people to be READY to go (to Jordan) when the time comes rather than giving precise timelines, but needless to say I’d still be interested to know your response.
Hi Colin,
Thanks for your comment and question. We are doing well – I continue to try and teach people to be prepared for the upcoming disaster and to be ready to go when the time comes. As far as the timeline is concerned, one thing that I am sure is correct is that we are approaching 120 Jubilees since creation. The mini timelines in the Bible: 2000 years to Abraham-proof from counting the genealogies; 500 years to exodus (release) Jubilee of jubilees 50×50=2500; 500 years of judges; 500 years of kings, 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel=500 years; 2000 years since death of Christ in 30 A.D.; all these add up to 6000 years. In my view if we get beyond late 29 A.D. (1st October) and the Two Witnesses have not appeared on the scene then I am beginning to doubt my whole thesis. I would then think my pre-millennial view of the end times is at fault. There really is no margin of error to go 1 day beyond the 6000 year mark because that would take you beyond that whole theory. The main strength of this being the Biblical view is 1000 years = 1 day and that world history is 6 days and then 1 day Sabbath rest. Also Gen. 6:3 says God will only contend with man for 120 years/cycles. If the cycles here are Jubilee cycles then 120 x 50 years = 6000 years.
Another point is that we have had 7 mountains/Gentile kingdoms mentioned in Rev. 17:9-10. Even when John wrote this 5 had fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece), 1 existed at the time (Roman Empire) and 1 was yet to come which would remain only a little while (12 year Nazi reign) so there are no further kingdoms to go except for the 8th and final Antichrist. This gives us a limit. Also Israel has come back in unbelief in 1948 and so will only be 70, 80 or 100 years (1 generation) max to the Lord coming back. These are all rough guides but there other guideposts as discussed in my other blogs such as the two proofs of why 2030 is important
I have a friend who is anxiously waiting for 25th September 2022 (Rosh- Hashanah) and believes that this could be the pre-trib rapture in 2 weeks time. There is nothing I can say to him to convince him. He has to get past this date for him to be convinced that this is not correct. Wrong date setting is the ultimate teacher. He says that if he sees the Two Witnesses begin to minister as I say and he is still around then he will know that he has been wrong about pre-trib. If my dates are wrong (which they well could be because it is just my best guess) then I would have to re-think my whole 6000 year theory. What I am actually waiting for is the start of the ministry of the Two Witnesses to begin their 1260 day ministry not a peace agreement or seeing an Antichrist (he doesn’t appear until the halfway mark). I have been careful to say that the countdown is my “proposed” timeline when I think they will appear. The other thing is that prophetic seals are being unsealed as we get closer to the end as more pieces fit together (Dan. 12:4).
The problem is that date-setters have given end times prophecy a bad name and everyone thinks that you can’t guess because no one knows the day nor the hour. But that statement in Matt. 24:36 is a Hebrew idiom for the Jewish New Year’s Day – Rosh Hashanah. What Jesus was in fact saying was that the Son of Man will return on Jewish New Year’s Day. It was the day that no man knows. See “What exactly is the last trumpet?” Even my pre-trib friend now believes that but he is quietly hoping that it will happen in 2022.
Until late 2029 I see no reason to change my view unless the Two Witnesses don’t appear at that time. In that case I will have to admit that I have been incorrect or I have misinterpreted something.
Thanks for your reply Steve.
“I wouldn’t count the Two Witnesses being killed on the scale of disaster.”
It is not just their death, but what happens at the same hour as their death, “And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.” (Rev 11:13)
Certainly sounds like a disaster to me.
“The second woe better translated as “disaster” is actually the 1/3 of mankind who get killed by the 200 million troops.”
I think you are referring to Rev 9:13-21 here, before the parentheses, in which case, I agree. Rev 9:13 (which is the very next event after the first woe has passed) starts with, “And the sixth angel sounded…” So if the second woe aligns with that event, and it does, then it clearly aligns with the sixth trumpet, which has 1/3 of mankind killed by troops as you say . That is consistent with my argument. 2nd woe, 6th trumpet and death of two witnesses along with events of Rev 11:13 happen concurrently.
“42 months, 1290 days and time, times and half a time always refer to the second half or Great Tribulation. The first half lasts 1260 days and second half 1290 days which perfectly covers 7 years (+ 10 days) from 1st October 2029 to 1st October 2036”
42 x 30 = 1260, not 1290 (the Jewish system of calculation is 30 days per month). Moreover if there are 10 days left over (by our current calculation), it is not “perfectly” 7 years. I see in your timeline you fill that ten days with the bowls of God’s Wrath, but can you quote me the scripture that says those bowls last ten days? I cannot find it anywhere. I’m happy to be proven wrong, but unless you can quote scripture on that, it seems to me an example of trying to fit events into a timeline, as opposed detailing what the Bible actually says.
I see the seven seals covering the whole 7 years as per my timeline. I don’t agree that the 7th seal opens the 1st trumpet etc. This is because Hebrew thinking is very circular and recapitulated. So while I do believe that the 5th, 6th and 7th trumpets are obviously the 3 woes, I see them as covering the whole second half of the Great Tribulation. The 5th trumpet occurs exactly at the mid-point but the parenthesis from Rev. 10:1-11:13 means that it is excluded from the 2nd woe. This in fact happens at the 5th trumpet because of what I said in my last comment about Rev. 11:7. So, basically if you exclude the parenthesis then you go straight from 9:21 to 11:14. A parenthesis means that it is totally excluded from the former narrative. In other words, the digression of the scroll and the Two Witnesses is not part of the story of the 2nd woe. It is like an aside meaning that it could happen at any time. But because of Rev. 11:7 and Rev. 12:6, the 1260 days always refers to the ministry of the Two Witnesses and they are killed exactly at the halfway point. This then gets them out of the way when the Gentiles can totally trample the holy city for 42 months of the last half.
I used the Jewish calendar Hebcal to calculate the days and it takes into account all the Jewish holidays and lunar system. Yes, you are right, I see the last bowls of wrath occurring in the last 10 days because they are known as the Days of Awe in between Trumpets and Atonement. They are called the seven “last” plagues and occur right at the very end with the 6th bowl occurring just before the Battle of Armageddon (Rev. 15:1, 16:16). Although many people of the world do not repent during these plagues (Rev. 16:9,12) there may in fact be some who do. A possible hint of the ten days may be the prophecy to the church at Smyrna where it says that they will need to suffer for 10 days only to the point of death. These may be the few who come to Christ even at this very late stage during the 7 last plagues. Christ returns on the Jewish New Year (Trumpets) for the church which is the rapture at the last trumpet (100 trumpets that day) and defeats the beast, saves Israel on the Day of Atonement 10 days later.
I have many blogs and articles on the site concerning these points. You can listen to my series on the feasts and their prophetic significance here. I actually made a mistake on my last comment… There are not 10 days left over. There are exactly 7 years between the start when the Two Witnesses start their ministry and the Day of Atonement when Christ returns at the end according to my calculations (1st October 2029 – 1st October 2036) using the Hebrew calendar. What I meant was that there are 10 days after the 1290 days but this is included in the seven years.
Hi Steve,
For many years I believed like you the ministry of the two witnesses would be at the beginning of the 7 years, however I now see it as being in the final 3.5 years. The easiest way to prove this is that after detailing the ministry of the two witnesses in Rev 11, it says, “The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.” (Rev 11:14). The second woe being the death of the two witnesses. So what are the three woes? We are introduced to this in Rev 8:13, “And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!” The three woes therefore coincide with the three trumpets yet to sound. If there are seven trumpets, and only three left, this must be trumpets 5, 6 and 7. This is confirmed in Rev 9, which details the fifth trumpet, and release of the locust creatures from the bottomless pit. It ends with, “One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.” (Rev 9:12). So the first woe is clearly the events of the fifth trumpet, and the second woe comes after that – meaning the sixth trumpet. Given the seven trumpets are prepared to sound only after the opening of the seventh seal (Rev 8:1-6), and the two witnesses are given 1260 days (3.5 years) to fulfill their ministry, then their ministry must come in the second half of the 7 year end times period, not the first half. Therefore, the appearance of Elijah, the Two Witnesses, and plagues out of Jerusalem, is not a sign of the beginning of the final 7 year period.
God bless.
Hi Tim,
Thanks for your comments. The book of Revelation like other Hebrew focused books have parentheses. In Revelation there is a parenthesis from Rev. 10:1 to Rev. 11:13. The second woe better translated as “disaster” is actually the 1/3 of mankind who get killed by the 200 million troops. I wouldn’t count the Two Witnesses being killed on the scale of disaster. If you see the parenthesis then you can see that this is the 2nd disaster.
As to the timing of when the Two Witnesses minister on the earth, the key verse is Rev. 11:7. The Greek verb (anabainon) is actually “coming up” and is in the present tense and according to Greek Scholar Tim Warner, “If John meant that the Beast had previously ascended from the abyss but will kill them afterwards we would expect him to use the aorist or perfect participle here. His use of the present participle (in conjunction with the word “when”) indicates that the Beast will kill the witnesses at the time he ascends from the deep. This will occur at the mid-point of the 70th week (cf. Rev. 17:7-11). Therefore, the testimony of the two witnesses must be before the middle of the tribulation, at the time of the abomination of desolation.” The point is that the beast is only revealed and comes up out of the abyss at the halfway point and immediately kills the Two Witnesses as the first point on his agenda. When the Bible has 1260 days it is always in reference to the Two Witnesses. 42 months, 1290 days and time, times and half a time always refer to the second half or Great Tribulation. The first half lasts 1260 days and second half 1290 days which perfectly covers 7 years (+ 10 days) from 1st October 2029 to 1st October 2036. See my timeline.